of 30,000, you're speaking out. you're never one on one. so the very thing we've kind of chastised him for, he's a businessman, a negotiator, that's basically day to day, you're debating when you're a businessperson. >> and by the way, the president, willie, doesn't like one-on-ones. he does not like one-on-ones at all. >> and he doesn't listen. >> again, when i say he doesn't like one-on-ones, i'm just talking about what democrat senators have told me. republican senators tell you that. well, you discount it because there's a big ideological war. but we hear it time and time again from democratic senators, democratic house members, he doesn't talk to us. he doesn't like being with us, you know. you know, on a personal level, i really respect the fact, he likes hanging out with his kids and his wife. and when he goes golfing, he's not going to go golfing and do what bill clinton did and talk to lobbyists or talk to members that he's trying to persuade.